It has been nearly 16 years since Canadian thrash metallers Annihilator
released their well-received debut album Alice In Hell. Through
numerous line-up changes, several record company deals, multiple touring
dates, and 13 record albums, guitarist/songwriter Jeff Waters has weathered
the good and the bad. In late 2005, Annihilator released their 11th studio
album Schizo Deluxe (read CD review).
I really could have let Jeff interview himself, because once I asked him
a question; he was off to the races. Not necessarily answering the question,
but just talking about what he wanted to. Eventually he'd get back on topic.
I originally had 22 questions lined-up for Jeff, but once we reached question
twelve after 45 minutes, I had enough. Transcribing our conversation took
at least 24 hrs. I did my best to edit the material to make sense, but it's
still a little choppy. It's nothing personal against Jeff, he really is a
nice guy; but stick to the topic man!
Rock Is Life would like to thank Chris, Dave, and Billy from the Annihilator
Message Boards for helping with the questions.
RIL: If I knew absolutely nothing about Annihilator, how would you
describe the band’s music to me?
JW: I’m going to have to say it’s sort of like some Canadian’s ‘best
of,’ mixed in with some eighties metal influences. I’ve done
some original styles with my guitar playing and songwriting, but I think
a lot of our sound comes from being a great metal fan of the eighties bay
area stuff; like Metallica with the speed metal that was going on in the
eighties, and mix that with the British wave going on. There’s a classical
influence there too, and a tiny little Tesla. Sometimes it’s just a
big mixture of so much stuff.
RIL: There’s no doubt your new album Schizo Deluxe stays true to the
classic Annihilator sound, but it was some of your socially conscious lyrics
that stood out for me. Tell me what you were thinking when you wrote “Plasma
Zombies?”
ZS: I’m famous, at least in the English language, for writing cheesy
titles and lyrics a lot of times. Sometimes it’s hit and miss. When
you look back at some of your work and go, ‘Hmm…that wasn’t
that good.’ I stopped analyzing it. The majority of people like it,
or at least most people like it. The majority of my fans are over in Europe.
I think lyrics for me were always a secondary thing and the guitar playing
was always first. Over the years it just developed into whatever I see around
me, like observing things and what’s happening to me. You end up having
a way to relate to what you’re talking about.
Anyway, back to your question. I guess “Plasma Zombies” was
inspired around realizing that my kid was playing too many video games. Over
the last year I realized that he had let the X-Box become a babysitter. It’s
like an awakening as a parent. I was like, ‘What am I doing here?’ He’s
actually going to school thinking, ‘When am I going home so I can play
video games?’ That unraveled to me looking at some of my friend’s
kids and seeing some of them overweight, and some of them don’t go
outside and play with there friends. They would rather come home from school
and play video games. I took away the X-Box and the computer and gave him
twenty minutes to a half-an-hour a day on them, as long as I was watching
him. It became a song that I just sat down at the coffee table and thought
about it. I noticed how many of my friends kids we’re not even going
outside and playing. It’s a serious subject. I got a few things of
the song ideas from television and the news; “Satan”, “Warbird,” and “Like
Father, Like Gun.” Those three were spawned from television.
RIL: How was “Like Father, Like Gun” spawned from
television?
JW: Well, one of the questions I have been getting
lately is, ‘Was
that written for [Dimebag Darryll Abbott]?’ That’s the question
I have been getting a lot, which you didn’t ask, thank you. People
ask that because it has a little Sabbathy vibe to the choruses. Everyone
thinks that it’s a Pantera vibe. Pantera got a lot of that stuff
from old Metallica stuff. I think people maybe thought because the chorus
had that Sabbath/Pantera vibe, that it was written for Dime, but it wasn’t.
It was actually written well before his death. It was spawned off of watching
the news. I was walking by the TV set and I saw a demonstration in the
Middle East. A bunch of guys were running around yelling a bunch of things.
I don’t know what; I didn’t really pay attention to it. They
were shooting their guns up in the air. For a second I noticed they had
their kids with them, little kids. I just sat down and wrote the tune;
there you go.
Lyrically and musically with Annihilator, you have
to be kind of open-minded. If you the kind of fan or metal fan that likes
for
example…I went through my Slayer period where…I mean…I
wish I was in Slayer! I went through a Slayer period when I was in my late
teens; I guess nineteen or twenty somewhere around there for about a year
and a half straight. That’s all I listened to, and everything else
sucked. Fortunately I got out of that. That’s when I kept listening
to many different things. I think that you have to do that with Annihilator
if you want to follow the band, because we’ve changed with production
soloing styles, different influences, different singers, drummers; you
know that kind of stuff. Annihilator has been based on that from beginning…that
you have to have an open mind.
One of the coolest reasons that I think
I’m still around and having actually…believe it or not, a fair
amount of success at this…especially in Europe, is because the kids
there know that at least if they aren’t into one singer or one record,
they might want to come back and check out the next one. I think I’ve
got to look at it that way, because I can’t see any other reason
why a band that’s not a band…that’s been called a name…that’s
had what, five singers?...has had eleven records, and has been able to
put out a record every year and sell a lot of records. Not in North America
obviously.
RIL: There are three bonus tracks on the new album, the one
I have has “Weapon
X”, “I Am in Command” and “Annihilator.” What
is the story behind these tracks? Where did they come from?
JW: I never like coming from that school were
it was like…you know… just ‘bonus
tracks’ that’s not the album. I always wanted them to put
the songs on the record, and for bonus stuff to be given away on my
website.
The record companies do it to try and attract people that like that
sort of thing, to buy a record because of it. According to them, they’re
loosing SO much money from the Internet, so I put three bonus tracks
on the album. I wanted to put something on that was at least decent
to me,
so I put the song “Weapon X” which I did with Dave Padden
back in 2004 when we did our last album before this one. That one did
go on
the album. It’s one of my favorites, and it’s only about
two and a half minutes long. It reminds me of…probably not on
the same level, but it reminds me of that “Battery” song
by Metallica…that
kind of early Metalica vibe…that’s a cool tune.
Then I wanted
to put a couple of things for those real hardcore Annihilator fans.
[I Am in Command] was a real crappy quality recording of we did with the
Never
Neverland line-up…which was our biggest selling record. We toured
with Priest, and three months with Pantera. I felt that a lot of the
fans would like to hear the first time we jammed with that singer,
so I put
that on. I remember we were all nervous about this new singer; would
this guy cut it compared to the singer we had on the first album? Then
we went
on to do even better than that. It was neat just to remember the felling
in rehearsal. Then there was [Annihilator], it was the first song that
I had ever written. I think the bonus track version was pulled off
a radio recording in Ottawa, Canada.
RIL: Why did every eighties
metal band have a song with their name in the title?
JW: I know! I’m bad for that and also for cutting title tracks. I
think that the first record that I had ever done was the only one that
didn’t have a title track. I was even worse than all the other bands
though, I had two songs called “Annihilator.”
RIL: Really?
JW: Yeah, one is that bonus track and the other was on a 1994 record that
I did called King of the Kill. There was a song called Annihilator, a different
one, on that.
RIL: Are you planning to tour in support of Schizo Deluxe?
JW: Well, we were just going through the end of my
deal with this German label I did a record with them in 2003 it
was called Double Live Annihilation; a live album from Europe.
In 2004 I did a record called All For You, so my deal was done. I’m
just trying to go through the new deal situation stuff, then get it ready.
It’s just a matter of trying to get a label to believe in the band
and help us get on tour over here and in the States. I’m kind of lucky
this year because I’ve had a lot of musicians from other bands that
have done well in the States and Canada ask me to tour with them. It’s
just a matter of time and getting…I’m not asking for an amazing
deal, just something that we’ll be able to get the records in the metal
shops and make sure we have a little promotion. I haven’t played in
my own country since 1993, and I think I’ve done eight records since
then. You’ll see me soon. I haven’t done a single show here in
North America, that’s pretty wild.
RIL: You were asked to play
Gigantour last year but you declined, have you been asked for this year?
JW: I talk with Dave once and a while. I talked to
him last week. I think he would like us to come out on that. He’s got a lot of bands on his
list already, but for me it would be an honor. Gigantour, that would be awesome,
but it all depends if I could get a decent label to at least put some support
into it. A lot of young bands tour the States, and older bands too, but I
mean a lot of the bands coming up…like Roadrunner and all these labels…are
touring and touring and there giving a little wage to do it. I have to pay
my other three or four guys in the band, and they’re not from my city.
They’re from all around North America, so you got to get through it.
Not that I want to make all the profit and all the money, I just would like
to break even.
One thing the people…some people know were still alive
over here. They’ll be like, ‘Why you snubbing your own countrymen
and snubbing the States?’ If you don’t answer the question, and
let the rumors go around for years, then a lot of people think, ‘Oh,
that asshole didn’t want to!’ When you have all sorts of members
and lineup changes you don’t really answer those questions. The reality
of it is, I had a son in 1995. Two years later his mother left, so I was
left with a two year old, which is okay, but it also made it impossible to
go on the road and tour. So what I did manage to do is a month, five weeks,
or two weeks at a time, then come back for two months, go back to Europe
and Asia. Basically, I had more financial success with this Annihilator thing
in the nineties; which was a down time for metal. I had so much success over
there.
North Americans thought Never Neverland album was
the end of the band, because after a lot of people herd those albums, they
thought we were finished.
In the nineties I had a lot of success overseas, but it was like a
part time job. I might be home with my son for a couple of months, then
my parents
would come out and take care of him while I was on tour for a month.
I did that cycle, then came home to record for four or five months. It
was good
and it was manageable, but if you add that on to that us trying to
break through in the States…I couldn’t have been a dad. That’s
why I have been out of North America. Now with my lovely girlfriend, she’ll
let me takeoff and she’ll look after my son. Hopefully I can get
a decent label and get a little insparation.
RIL: Speaking of tours
I had heard there was a little rift between Destruction and Annihilator
over a tour in Europe. What happened there?
JW: Well I just got over talking to [Marcel Schirmer].
He and I were just talking before my record came out; probably late summer
or
early fall. He and I had
been friends for so many years, and when I went to England, he said,
'Let’s
do a tour together.’ We both had albums coming out around the same
time, we were on the same label, and basically his…it’s kind
of one of those things were I’ll say it really fast, cause it’s
a really boring story. He said lets do it. We talked to management, the
tour agent…which was not my tour agent, and the tour agent said
give me an offer and I’ll see if I can make it work. I know how
it works. They make you an offer and you bang out the numbers and see
if it will work. So
a month later, I didn’t get an offer, and the tour was supposed
to be coming up soon. I assumed there was no tour waiting for this offer.
A
lot of people play this game, especially at this level, sort of spreading
the rumor around that they’re touring together. Everybody’s
talking about the tour, and that kind of forces one of the bands to accept
anything
they’re offered.
I got the offer at the last minute. I go to my label
to get support and they wouldn’t do it. In a nutshell, Marcel
thought I was going to be touring with him, but he didn’t realize
that nobody had taken care of business. There was a game being played.
So
right away
he went onto his forum and said that he was pissed off that he and
I wanted to do a tour together. He said something to the effect that
I had fucked
him around and I fucked the tour or something like that. Blabbermouth
got a hold of it and that was it. That was pretty short compared to
what I’m
use to answering. I don’t think there are any hard felling anymore.
Its just you say something in one language, that’s not your first
language, and double that you say it in your website forum and on the
internet…it
can be seen and taken the wrong way. It looks different than it was
meant. Add to that, you grab Blabbermouth headlines; it just looks
worse than
it is.
RIL: With all the band member changes and label changes…
JW: People changes are good, and I’ll justify
it with this; how many bands that play heavy music that were around
in the eighties are
still
going all the way straight through to 2006 putting records out and
touring? There
you go! Go ahead.
RIL: …………..
JW: You can’t have one record deal going fifteen
years.
RIL: Have you ever thought of quitting Annihilator and packing it up?
JW: There was a few times when the business end of
it can really suck. Couple that with the fact that a lot of people in this
business are crooked, will
rip you off, and take your money, or intercept money that supposed to go
to you. That just part of the business and it’s not unique to heavy
metal, or even the music business or entertainment. So you can’t
really complain, you just have to deal with it or get out of it. I’ve
dealt with it, but it sure has its ups and downs. It’s not like a
regular job where…at least if you make forty thousand bucks a year…you
know what kind of taxes you’re going to pay. You know you go to work
from 9-5, and you know when your vacation is. You really have a lot of
people say, ‘Fuck that!’ Then you get guys like me that at
some times made a lot of money; and at others went with no money. You have
to be smart, which I wasn’t a lot of times. It’s a complete
rollercoaster.
One day your on airplane in a nice hotel…picked up
by nice cars…you’re on tour with a great band…you meet
a lot of people famous people, people that you have idolized…that’s
the up-side. The other side of it is not as predictable. I won’t
get into to many of the downsides, but if you can stay away from the booze
and cocaine, and all that stuff…some of the lifestyle things…and
sell enough records, be smart with your money…great! I don’t
know, there are not a lot of metal bands that make a lot of money. Most
guys in metal bands have jobs. Basically it’s an up and down thing.
Sometimes I would sit there and say, ‘I don’t need this shit!’ I’m
sure if I focus, I could make a decent living at it, but I keep getting
this voice that says how many times are you going to be able to do this?
How many people would love to get on a plane and go tour and make records?
I always come back to this Annihilator thing because
it is what I like doing, and I love doing it. I have no pressure doing
what I do, and it’s
not like we sell a million records, or the record company telling me to
do things. I’ve been tempted to do other things, but
for some reason I just keep coming back to this. The main thing for me
was the managers…labels
that were trying to fuck you over…that make promises, even in writing,
even possibly legally airtight contracts, then would turn around and say
it’s not in the contract. They’d say, if I don’t like,
it take it to court. You get the lawyer, find out the cost, give him five
or ten thousand dollars up front for a retainer, and then you have to go
to court. Even if you win in court, the other company has a chance to drag
it out for another two to three years. That has been the one thing about
it that has made me want to give it up.
RIL: There’s speculation on the Internet that your lead singer
may be leaving, is that true?
JW: No, no. Dave Padden has been our singer for about
three years, and he just has a lot of down time now waiting. He’s
got a couple friends in Canada that he jams with. He likes keeping busy.
It’s good for me
because he doesn’t sit around waiting for me to get my thing together
all the time. He likes that real heavy stuff and that’s weird, because
if you listen to our last record, All for You, it’s the opposite of
modern heavy. It’s more melodic, with some ballads. For me it was perfect
because my music goes anywhere from that thrash death metal to progressive
ballads, and everything in between. So his voice can do all that stuff. I’m
sure he’ll be with Annihilator for a while.
RIL: You recently performed at the Roadrunner United show in New
York City. Annihilator’s history is a little rocky with Roadrunner,
so how did that work out?
JW: I think it was rocky in 1993. The only time it
was rocky was when I came out and made a couple of stupid remarks. I don’t know what it was.
That was at the time when metal disappearing, unless you were Pantera or
Biohazard or something hardcore; which back then they called that type stuff
hardcore metal. This was one of the only times on one of my records that
I coaxed myself into…I thought metal was going to take more of a melodic
turn, which was a success in Asia and parts of Europe, but it was a complete
failure here. Roadrunner, at the time, dropped us. I remember back then I
was just pissed off at them, but when I looked back shortly after that, I
thought, ‘What am I talking about?’ Roadrunner won because they
saw where metal was going, and not only that; they shaped it. From their
perspective, it was good to drop my band.
It was like a reality check, and
that reality check made me realize that there was a lot of money to be
made. I don’t mean that for myself, but when I was with Roadrunner, there
was a lot of money for selling those big albums. They actually did a fantastic
job on our records, it’s just that I realized that money was being
sent to my manager and I wasn’t getting it. I think he ended up taking
some of it, and we ended up spending a lot of it. We wanted a car and a place
to live, and he didn’t look after any of our business or money. I think
that split with Roadrunner was perfect for me because it made me learn more
about the business. About a year later I got my own deal, learned the licensing
deals, put three records out, bought a house, and built a recording studio.
It’s a really good lesson, and I learned from it. Then I rejoined up
with them in 1999 to do a record. It was only for Europe and Japan and it
did very well.
RIL: How did you get involved with the Roadrunner United show?
JW: Monty gave me a shout, and I guess they realized
that Annihilator can have some kind of little place in the Roadrunner history.
He asked me to
be on the record. I didn’t have to go in and write songs or play
rhythm or anything, just go in and play some solos. I thought it was kind
of interesting because, I can play lead guitar, but I’m not one of
those shredders that you would see on one of those guitar magazines. That
was the first gig I’ve ever had that they asked me to come in and
play solos. I got in a plane, sat in the sun in San Francisco three or
four hours a day with Rob Flynn, and played some solos and bang, I’m
done. That was it. Then they asked me to come down and play a song at the
live show. I can’t remember all the people that showed up. There
was a lot of people there. We got to play some King Diamond songs and then
play a song with Corey from Slipknot; just about four songs in general.
I don’t know if this sounds egotistical, and don’t take it
this way, but the coolest part was when I went down there…it wasn’t
just meeting all these people and being in New York and having fun; it
was funny how many of these younger bands knew of my band and records.
You get down there and…my girlfriend was in shock with this too…most
of these guys were coming to me…like Paul from Slipknot…and
guys that even if I really don’t like there music or band…I
respected them. Guys would come up to me from these bands and say they
had this record and that record. That was the coolest thing in the world
to me because it was…I’ve always known…we go over to
Europe and we really do well. In Germany, people come up to you, but I
never had that in North America, not since 1989-1990. That was the coolest
thing of my year. Oh yeah, then we got on stage and played some cool music.
It was the bonus day.
RIL: Is there an Annihilator DVD in the works?
JW: It should be our next month on SPV. It’s a double DVD, and it gets
all the old stuff out of the way. Back when we used to do videos, and we
didn’t carry around cameras like Pantera did…of course a great
great idea they had, and it started a track for sure. I can’t remember
how many bands did home videos after those came out. Every band had to put
those out, but I didn’t. I’ve sort of been kicking myself over
the years. I did have promotional videos; the ones over in Europe, but never
here. I’ve got eight of the nine back and paid for them. I put together
a lot of old fan footage and some interview stuff, and then got a bunch of
the old guys to come in and do some interviews. That’s really good
for the hardcore fans. It’s the first one we have done, so for anybody
that would be interested in Annihilator, you know to see us live…this
would be more like the interview and old video history thing. Next summer
I think we’re touring. We’re trying to put one of those high
quality concert DVDs together. You know; an hour and a half show in Europe
and Germany, plus the history of Annihilator. It’s pretty cool for
people who are interested in this; if not, it’s going to bore the hell
out of you.
RIL: Everywhere I’ve looked for information on you it has said one
common thing: ‘Jeff Waters is a really nice guy.’ So what I want
to know is; what’s the meanest or most evil thing you have done in
your life?
JW: Hmm, I've done a few things that I wouldn't dare
repeat. As I am sure most have. But when I was very young I was remember
being angry at my parents
for making me go to church. So while I was doing my ‘job’ of
taking coats from the old folks in the church, I would go through their pockets
and take any change that I found. I think I better re-pay them....might have
only been $10.00 or so but, man I bet that isn’t the best way to get
to heaven, right?!
JEFF
WATERS
